OMG, this is too funny. Now that the Firepups of FDL have aligned themselves with the teabagging birther neck drooling right wing fringe, no one is allowed to bring up any Hitler analogies, because you know, they’re all pals now!
Here’s the QUESTION I asked (I didn’t make a claim….was just thinking out loud on THIS POST BY JANE LIEBERMAN HAMSHER) (click for larger views) to make a point:
If you don’t want to click to see the larger view, here’s the question I asked: “I wonder if Hitler would have banded with the Jews to take down a couple of Nazis?”. The snip above shows that my comment is “awaiting moderator approval”, but originally my comment did go through (it had been moderated last night when I left the thread laughing at how weak they are!). As soon as it hit the page a couple of Douchebaggers over there went nuts. One said THIS to me. Notice the confusion in her response? She doesn’t know which character Jane represents, she’s freaking out, and so to make herself feel better and to protect Jane she’s turning it back on me by saying in effect, “How can you be so mean to Obama for implying he’s a Nazi!”. Yep, they hate Obama but as soon as someone brings up Hitler…
My response to Phoenix Woman’s hysteria (again click for larger view)…
Ummmm, girls? You’re going to have to get a little tougher is you’re going to be sleeping with right wing fringe Dogs to get to the top okay? Wow.
By the way, if the final bill is strong, Jane Hamsher and her Douchebaggers believe they will get all the credit. Are they serious? Yep! They are. They were all for killing the bill a few days ago and have spent weeks going after Obama, but yet, if anything positive happens they’re going to take credit for it? Ridiculous! Jane gets an F- for her public blowjobbing of the right wing fringe over the last few days. It’s so embarrassing that I can’t let this go at the moment! Seriously…
Hey, I’ve been banned from other “top progressive liberal blogs”, but as we all know….they’re not real progressive liberals. Anyone who bands themselves to the back of the right wing fringe of this country is either a former republican or has been Joe Lieberman at heart all along! So, thanks for banning me! I appreciate it. Funny…it’s okay for Jane to go after Obama & Rahm but it’s not okay for anyone else to go after her. See? Teabaggers are all the same.
You rock, Kay. I love it. The “moderators” at these so called progressive blogs really serve the purpose of keeping anyone who challenges them away, gotta love that. Is it any wonder their views are so twisted, they don’t seem to consider other reasoned analysis. I know my views have changed on the health care issue as I learned more, read varying opinions and thought about it with a clear head. There is none of that at FDL. Irrational anger seems to guide the majority over there. I’m able to post over their from my laptop, they banned the account I had on my IP address for my office machine at work. It’s great owning 4 computers and having access to dozens of them at work, they can’t silence me…..well, one computer at a time maybe.
Comments are falling in the black hole.
but who would advocate a massive corporate welfare bill for the insurance industry and call it health care?
Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.
Montag, the facts just don’t support your bold statement. Yes, we could abolish private insurance and it would be much better, but to make such hyperbolic statements with no context just doesn’t raise the level of discourse. The status quo is massive corporate welfare, and they can pick and chose who they cover, deny people who are sick…including children…I could go on. Yes, we all agree that the current bill isn’t socialized medicine, which is what I prefer, but to claim it makes things worse than they currently are, is just stupid. I’m sorry, stupid, idiotic. Where the disconnect with you folks is, is beyond me.
I dare you to challenge yourself, read Krugman’s blog, Nate Silver, Booman, Ezra Klein…all very good liberals. And open up your mind enough to at least consider what they are saying, then come back and tell us that you still think the status quo is better than the current bill. I double dog dare you.
Jim, Hamsher was in for Hillary and is now a PUMA because Obama is in. She has not gotten over it. Hell, I was a Kucinich supporter and backed Obama only when Kucinich said to after he got out. Am I banning with the right wing fringe now to take down Obama & Rahm because I wanted Kucinich? Nope! Not on your life! But hey, what the hell do I know….
Montag, you’d rather keep the status quo. Way to go Teabagger!
And Agi? Who are you talking to?
You know, I consider myself a progressive but I am appalled at what I see emanating from the left-wing blogosphere. Jane Hamsher has become the left’s version of Orly Taitz, and the FDL crowd are becoming teabaggers.
Yikes!
“they’re not real progressive liberals”
Right. Well I can see where this is going.
P.S. Some required reading for Jim in Michigan and others…
The phrase “winning a battle, but losing the war” comes to mind.
Frederick, how come you’re not linking to all the stories where doctors say health care reform is needed and this bill is a start? Huh?
We all want the public option and/or single payer, but how do you get a bill passed with it in there? You’re forgetting that we have WATBs in the Congress who won’t budge. We need to get a final bill passed and then work hard to get more progressive liberals in office to make sure over the next few years the public option is added in and the bill perfected. But wait! Jane Lieberman and her Teabaggers will be supporting right wingers next year! Nice. You all can screw off!
Exactly, Kay.
You cannot always get what you want, at least the first time around. So you work for what you can get and then work to elect people who will improve on it-which is exactly what happened with Social Security, civil rights legislation, etc, etc, etc.
Anybody who just sits and screams that we have to have everything we want NOW because we won one (!) election is patheticially immature and sleeping with the enemy because of it is the worst kind of counterproductive.
this is what congress is for. everything that comes out of that ulcered sphincter is massive corporate welfare. i really don’t see what about my previous comment makes it such a “bold statement.” better than the status quo? maybe in the same way getting beat about the head with a baseball bat is “better” than getting beat about the head with an ice pick.
if this legislation does what they say it will do (it won’t) things might be better for *me*, someone who already has health insurance. from what the ‘good liberals’ tell me, my premiums will go down and if i want to change jobs or start my own business or whatnot, i won’t lose my insurance. IF i haven’t lost my job and insurance before all of the provisions go into effect! and this will take years, as i understand it.
i dare say things will not be better for people who do not have insurance now because they can’t afford it, and whose premiums won’t be fully subsidized when they are FORCED by the government to purchase insurance. there’s another famous doughnut hole in there. (i learned that from reading between Krugman’s lines!)
and let’s not forget that health insurance is a lousy product.
the real problem here is that there is a finite amount of money available for health care, and that the cost of obtaining health care exceeds this amount. you come to understand this when you learn that the leading cause of personal bankruptcy is unexpected health expenses. what’s more, health care costs are rising. what’s even more, your middleman, the insurance industry, is skimming profits off the till.
ergo, if cost controls are not implemented for health services, and the profit motive is not removed in the insurance sector, AND costs continue to rise, which they will, (AND we’re not planning on surreptitiously printing an unlimited supply of money to inject into the system…) then yes, we can conclude with certainty that the current bill isn’t any better than the status quo. at best, it may perpetuate the status quo for those invested in health insurance stocks.
you can read your ‘good liberals’ all you want, but at this point they’re make-up artists to swine. at some point it serves to heed common sense.
to sum up: the state (in this case, congress) isn’t something for The People to manipulate, (that’s not what they’re there for) it is something to cope with.
also: LOL @ “stupid,” “idiotic,” “you folks” and “Teabagger.” your labels won’t stick to me, silly people! http://www.stumplane.us/blog/2009/10/28/subsistence-politics/
So, you being a good progressive liberal you believe we should kill the bill then? Huh? And band ourselves to the backs of the right wing fringe to punish the Democrats?
No thanks.
I know all about the pitfalls of our current health care system. You really didn’t have to go over it again. In the meantime, though, I am applauding the Democrats in Congress for getting something passed. It’s not final and I look forward to the next stepsand then onto President Obama signing it into law.
What will you be doing? Working to get right wingers into office next year, sitting out, or just bitching and complaining?
jeeze, Jim in Michigan called me out for making “hyperbolic statements with no context,” now you’re on my case for going over it all again! LOL.
i’m only suggesting that in my estimation democrats in congress don’t deserve your applause.
next year i’ll be sitting out. again.
Hey Frederick,
So you really think that there will be another battle real soon if this one is lost? Do you think the democrats in congress are going to get stronger and more progressive in the next year or after the next election? Now you can avoid that question, like all the others. It becomes an exercise in futility trying to discuss this issue with some folks, they just don’t want to deal in reality…..60 senators needed, including LIEberman, Nelson, Landrieu, Carper….reality, it can’t be ignored. I know real people who are going to benefit from the current bill, I care about these people, I want to see them get the care they need, I want to see their children covered. I work at a University where students are unable to go to the doctor because they can’t afford it, this bill will help them. All of us who support this bill with our noses plugged are big enough to concede that it isn’t perfect and needs to be fixed, why can’t the bill-killers admit that it IS better than the status quo?
I read the article about the nurses union, but I also know that the AMA and the Hospital association (whatever it’s called) support this. I suspect the nurses are operating on narrow, bad information probably supplied to them by FOX news or FDL, they work together now, you know. Regardless, this bill is a first step in many that shows America wants to cover it’s people who need health care.
Montag. “massive corporate welfare”, really? Hand outs? Where? If insurance companies are forced to cover people with pre-existing conditions, guess what? They have to pay out on claims, is that the welfare part? People who are sick and have a cap on lifetime benefits and insurance companies have to continue covering them, is that the welfare you speak of.
Coming up with pithy sayings like “massive corporate welfare” and all the others being propagated by the angry, spurned Hillary supporters is hyperbole. Yes, the current bill isn’t as tough on insurance companies as I would like, I’d like to see them go away, but to make out the totality of the current bill to be a complete handout to them is just plain exaggeration, hyperbole and propaganda. When it’s pointed out that the insurance industry has spent many millions of dollars trying to stop this bill, the response is usually dismissive or absent. I’m SURE the insurance companies would spend millions attacking something they really like. And pigs can fly.
Your “ergo” paragraph….the CBO says this current bill will reduce the deficit, you just don’t believe them? Bipartisan, independent CBO? So the whole printing money thing, a red herring. They predict that the rate of increase in costs will dramatically drop, status quo…..baby, those insurance companies just love your thinking. I can hear them cheering you and Hamsher all the way to Michigan.
You and your type are becoming the pawns of the insurance industry, they are loving you all right about now. They have the best of both worlds, republicans and bitter Hillary folks joining together to screw over poor people and the middle class.
As far as the stupid, idiotic statement, you might notice that I was referring to the claim as stupid and idiotic. I guess you must feel stupid or you wouldn’t have taken it personally when I said the claim is stupid. I’m just saying.
the insurance companies see this legislation as a “bonanza.” everything else is just spectacle to create the illusion that “debate” has happened.
i’ll admit i am a nobody, but i’m nobody’s tool. and, no, i don’t feel stupid.
Montag, so you really do believe the insurance industry spent hundreds of millions just to create spectacle, they were really supporting health care reform? It’s these types of leaps that really make me question people who make them. If you seriously believe that the insurance companies would rather see this bill pass than not, you really are delusional. I’m sorry to point that out to you. I think us progressives need to be honest with ourselves and operate within reality.
no, the insurance companies spent hundreds of millions to get the legislation they want. a portion of that goes to the spectacle.
i don’t know whether insurance would rather see this bill pass or not. but financial power being what it is, they certainly won’t have to suffer an unfavorable bill.
ps: i don’t feel delusional.
Well Montag, I guess you’ve come a long way from “massive corporate welfare” to “suffer an unfavorable bill”. Progress…..gotta love it.
we’ll see what the future holds.
no backtracking here. i stand by the “massive corporate welfare” characterization.
Republicans love massive corporate welfare, so why are they against the current bill which they and others are saying is a gift to the insurance industry? Oh wait! I know! BECAUSE THERE’S A BLACK MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE! Nevermind. They know their constituents are going to benefit from the final bill and all changes made thereafter, but they want to be on record being against it for the right wing fringe of America. See?
“We have a system that works well for the insurance industry, but it doesn’t always work for its customers.” And that’s changed how?
Kay…I am so sorry you had a falling out with firedoglake. The DLC is not the democratic party. I have more in common with Ron Paul than the clinton rahm wing of our party. To me, it has been taken over by clintons..like the repub party was taken over by bushes.
The DLC always comes down on the side of corporations? Google fascism. DLC votes that way. Obama is encouraging bipartisanship. His brand is DLC and republicans. What is wrong with following our leader…just a different branch of the tree. DLC =corporatism.
Hitler was into taking over countries. Killing Jews. The US is doing the same thing..only it is Arabs.Dems funding the wars is not a good thing. We need change we can believe in.Sometimes we have to make it happen.
Ummmm, Molly? Where in my post did you detect I’m feeling bad about being banned by FireDogLake, huh? It would be no different to me if Joe LIEberman banned me from his website or from making calls to his office! I would be proud of it.
So, you had no problem then in me comparing what Hitler might have done to a couple of Nazis to what FDL/Jane-LIEberman is doing with the right wing fringe to take down a couple of Dems. Good. Well, I don’t see this move as productive, but you all can!
No way in hell would I ban with a couple of the right wing neck drooling knuckle dragging trolls on MY BLOG to take you down Molly. See? Those who would are disgusting assholes as far as I’m concerned. And believe me…..over on A-blog this did happen! The “progressive liberals” over there were so jealous of me and others that they banded with the right wing trolls and each other to kick me, Grant, Uncle, and others off there. What happened to Ablog? THEY KILLED IT by kicking everyone off who had a real personality. The End.
Don’t blame firedoglake for censorship if you are doing it too.
Just because I was censored and that went up does not change censorship.
Molly looks like a fool.
Maybe there is hope by some “progressives” that by killing off Obama, Hillary will have a chance in 2012. Not sure even the Clintons want this now. Hillary barely beat out Sarah Palin in the most recent “most admired woman” survey by USA Today and the Gallup Poll (16% vs 15%) so Hillary could possibly go down in defeat. Why not support our President now, even with some flaws, unless we really do want a President Palin in our future? Is “pantsuits uber alles” the most important criterion???