…..and now Beverly is dead herself after the plane she was on crashed in Buffalo, New York last night. Interesting….she meets with President Obama in the White House a week ago to talk about closing down the prison in Guantanamo along with others and was a voice for those 9/11 victim’s family members who felt the U.S. government failed us on that day….and now she’s dead? Just a mere coincidence?
Another interesting person on-board Continental Flight 3407 was Alison Des Forges who was a human rights activist with her focus mainly on Rwanda. She was a thorn in everyone’s side who said (think Bush Regime) their country should not ratify the International Criminal Court, so as, to protect their military men & women from being held responsible for the war crimes they’ve committed.
Soooooo, did ice on the plane’s wing bring down the plane or was the plane sabotaged, since some witnesses are saying the plane was aglow (on fire) before it hit the ground?
Witnesses…
- Kathleen Dworak said she heard the plane’s engines “sputtering” as it passed over her home shortly before the impact. “Then there was a loud noise and it shook our house,” she told CNN. “We opened the door and smelled smoke.”
- Her 12-year-old daughter, Tomasita Trujillo, told AFP the plane was on fire before it crashed.” I looked out my window and saw flames on everything except one of the wings,” she said. “It sounded like something was caught (on the plane). It didn’t sound right.”
How the hell does ice on the plane’s wings cause the whole plane to catch fire and drop straight down on a house? You decide. I just report this crap. LOL
Oh yeah, and then this…
Okay, back to bed. By the way, I’m no longer throwing up but all of my joints are achy, so much so….moving hurts. I’m serious. Ugh.
And why do I get the feeling that either Collins and/or Spector might vote AGAINST the economic stimulus bill tonight? (the vote is happening right now…there are 57 ‘ayes’ right this second and 60 are needed….why are the 3 republicans not making their votes known and are stalling tonight? Something is up)
UPDATE: C-SPAN 2 just reported it’s 2 Democrats who haven’t voted yet. Bayh & Brown. Jees. What the hell!
I don’t like the turbo-props like the plane that crashed. The airlines liked them as they were more economical. I used to have to fly them out of Corpus Christi and besides being noisy and slower than commuter jets, they vibrate badly. Fifteen years ago, a similar aircraft, an ATR belonging to American Airlines, crashed due to icing of its wings enroute from Indianapolis to Chicago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Eagle_Flight_4184
A few more victims have been identified:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h0vc7yecGw0qFv7pFD3pK7T22YtAD96AVKT01
Sen. Sherrod Brown was in Cleveland today for the memorial of his recently deceased mother and is flying back to vote.
Two postings blocked…
There may have been two Israelis onboard the commuter plane, too:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3671312,00.html
My FIRST ever airplane trip ended with our C-47 landing without our landing gears all of the way down and locked due to ice packing around the wheels while descending in frozen rain on Halloween weekend back in the mid-50’s. I was part of an Explorer Scout weekend at Bakalar AFB in Columbus, Indiana, where we were feted and dined (and recruited by the Air Force). Our scout post was first (and last) up in the air that morning. Other scouts from Cincinnati were upset then that all flights were then grounded and nobody else got to fly.
The crew jettisoned most of our fuel, did a “touch-and-go” to attempt to jar the wheels lose to no avail. Most of the Scouts were either grabbing for barf bags or praying but I was so engrossed watching the ambulances (with Red Crosses on top) and the fire trucks preparing the runway, I didn’t do either. The WWII veteran pilot did a great job of putting us down as gently as possible, then the plane skidded on its belly to a muddy field where Air Force personnel held “nets” for us to jump into before flipping us off in the direction of waiting blue school buses. I have never feared flying as a result of that “crash” and probably put in a million+ air miles in my 53 years of flying since. But then in a case of a nose dive as just happened in Buffalo, there is not much hope for survival.
I also learned a bit about journalism that day as the Sunday Indianapolis Star reported that “screaming parents” watched the crash from the ground. Our parents were all 150 miles away and NONE knew we scouts had crashed until we returned home the next day to tell them (that was in the day before cell phones!). Also we were in the South Bend TV market and the story wasn’t presented there. We had to present newspapers then for our parents to believe us. I was most upset a few months later when Wright-Patterson AFB invited us for a weekend in Dayton to fly on a B-52 (then brand new) and my parents refused to sign my permission slip.
There may have been two Israelis onboard the commuter plane, too:
Obama had the jews killed because he hates them.
Is that smiley eyes after your comment Grant? You are pleased that two Israelis died? You\’re a sick twisted f–k.
I’ve never trusted those goddamned Republicans. Obama never ever should have appointed Greg Judd. I know he was trying to “reach out” to the right, but these new Repukes never play fair. You can’t take the high road with them – you need to stomp them into the ground or else they will rise like a phoenix.
I think that asshole Judd always intended to do this, or else he was pressured — or possibly threatened by the Reicht wing – to step down. Like usual, the Repukes always find a way to turn things around and make it look like they’re the good guys. I have a feeling Susan Collins will back down. Can’t say I blame the poor lady as the Reicht will rip her apart. The Dems need to stop trying to appease these assholes and forge ahead. Look how Obama praised McCain, only to have that limp dick asshole try to garner support AGAINST the stimulus package. What a slap in the face. They’re all like that. You can’t trust them any farther than you shoe will go up their ass.
Interesting….she meets with President Obama in the White House a week ago to talk about closing down the prison in Guantanamo along with others and was a voice for those 9/11 victim’s family members who felt the U.S. government failed us on that day….and now she’s dead? Just a mere coincidence?
Um, Mrs. Eckert was petitioning Pres. Obama to NOT shut down the prison in Gitmo… Please carry on with a new explanation of your psycho conspiracy theory.
Do you realize how easy it is to kill a person with almost no suspicion compared to bringing down an airplane with many innocent people?? Do you even think before posting this crap.
Then again, you DO have the flu, so you can be forgiven… Grant, however, should have called you on it
Where as JFH has his head shoved so far up his ass, his brain comes thru as a third kidney on the MRI.
Our TROLL SLAPPY must be smoking something if he thinks that my too: is a smiley face. Here is how I (and most everyone) make a smiley face
Such assholes love any chance to call somebody they don’t even know, “You\’re a sick twisted f–k.”
I followed the word TOO with a colon, meaning a LINK follows (something which many trolls don’t have a clue about).
Learn to READ, TROLL!!!
You know what would be hilarious and would make many republicans stroke out??? If President Barack Obama after signing the new stimulus bill decided to add signing statements which removed all of the repulican’ts crap in the bill. I think that would totally rock!
slappy Says:
February 13th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
“““““““““““““““““““““`
Sadly slappy wasn’t on the plane, the flapping of his lips might have kept the plane in the air and saved everyone. too:
The stimulus bill has passed,
Elections have consequences.
When i first read the news about the crash i read the name “Beverly Eckert”, and without me
knowing who she is, i did a search on Google and
it came up with the following article written
by her.. Please when reading it use your thinking and put aside your emotions for a few minutes!
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1220-04.htm
Beverly Eckert, whose husband died at the World Trade Center, is the founder of Voices of September 11th, a victims advocacy group.
And you know what, Uncle, he COULD add a signing statement if he wanted to. The precedent has already been made. Also, if President Obama wants to listen in on the neocunts’ phone calls, well okie-dokie then, that’s okay too. That precedent has already been set as well. That’s the thing about the stupid turds who supported that asshole george bush for eight years — they all defended every unconstitutional thing he did, but they were too stupid to realize that whatever bush could get away with, so can every president after him. I guess they really believed george bush was king for life and there’d never be another president.
Anyway, I think we should waterboard every one of bush’s former cabinet members. That’s legal too, you know, thanks to the neocunts.
Troll @ #8:
Got a link proving that Eckert wanted GITMO to stay open forever so America can continue torturing people down there?
The families (9/11 & USS Cole) all understood after meeting with President Obama that closing down GITMO would not mean that all of the prisoners would go free:
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/06/obama.uss.cole/?iref=mpstoryview
One of the failures of 9/11 & the Bush Regime was George Bush lowered our nation down to the terrorist’s level and there is no way in hell Beverly Eckert believed that a bunch of guys in caves thwarted America’s defenses on 9/11, so torturing people PURCHASED FROM PAKISTAN was not making us safe!
Grant, I was watching KO’s show last night and loved the part where he points out the 9 mistakes (spelling included!) in 49 seconds a right winger made while giving a speech about Abe Lincoln! It was hysterical.
I’m feeling better this morning. My knees are still achy but not like they were over the first two days.
LMAO @ Clif’s comment at #10 & Uncle’s comment at #13!
J. @ comment #7…
Did you watch Rachel Maddow’s show last night? She interviewed President Obama’s Transportation Secretary (republican La Hood) and when he was asked about Judd Gregg leaving so quickly, he commented it was weird and disturbing considering IT WAS GREGG WHO CAMPAIGNED THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION FOR THE POSITION OF COMMERCE SECRETARY!
FireDogLake has a video of the exchange…
http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/3655
Here’s why I think Gregg was so emotional at his presser:
He truly wanted to be the Commerce Secretary under Barack Obama, but was threatened by the right wing members of the American Taliban in the House & Senate to QUIT to show PARTY LOYALTY. They most likely told Gregg his wife and children would be murdered if he didn’t submit to their demands.
See? This is how the Taliban works. Gregg had a gun to his temple at the presser that only he could see.
New Hampshire is VERY BLUE TODAY, so Gregg was jumping on the Blue Bandwagon for wanting to be on President Obama’s team. By doing so would mean a Gregg victory in 2010. Well, now he doesn’t have that chance. He will be thrown out. In fact, if I’m not mistaken, he said at the presser he would not seek re-election (he sees the invisible gun!). Why yes, yes he did…
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/bulletin/bulletin_090213.htm
Grant @ #2:
Continental Connection Flight 3407 was made in Canada. It’s well equipped for dealing with ice. In fact, the fleet is extremely safe and this is the first time ‘one of their planes crashed due to ice being on the wing’.
I’m suspecting foul play at this point until it’s proven to me that ice on the wings can cause the planes to go up in flames and drop straight down on a house.
Also, the reason why the fire was so hot and why it burnt for so long is because there was a gas leak at the house. Makes sense to me.
What in the world does made in Canada have to do with it. A plane does not fly with ice on the wings and it was equipped with de-ice boots which makes it certified to fly in icing conditions but unlike a pure jet with hot wings it is not anti-ice which heats the wing.
Once a plane looses lift, ice build up on the the spar and trailing portion of the wing, there is nothing to hold it in the air and it drops.
How does ice on the wings cause the whole plane to be on fire as one witness said it was? Witnesses said it was glowing before it hit the ground.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-flight3407-transcript-feb13,0,7376989.htmlstory
24:45 – ATC: delta 1998, 6 miles from KLUMP maintain 2300 until established on a localizer, clear to ils approach runway 2-3
24:54 – delta 1998: ILS 2-3 and we’re still in the imc here, 2300 delta 1998
25:00 – atc: are you getting any kind of icing or anything there?
25:03 – delta 1998: uhh it doesn’t appear to be building, we have a 1/2..1/4 inch from the descent that has remained this whole time
25:11 – atc: thank you
25:18 – cactus 1452: whatever: intercept us low for cactus 1452 and we’ve been picking up ground lights here for the last 10 oh minutes
25:25 – atc: okay, stand by for ??? ice report
25:36 – atc: who was that?
25:39 – cactus 1452: ‘52 sir, we’ve been getting ice since about 20 miles south of the airport
25:46 – atc: – cactus 1452 okay, if you can let me know when you get out of the icing, aircraft coming up from the south was reporting that earlier
25:25 – atc: delta 1998, if you could, just disregard the auto land sir, contact 120.5 just let him know if you have any variation in the localizer or anything
26:34 – delta 1998: -5 okay, delta 1998, thanks
27:05 – ???? …any kind of information you can get, we’d appreciate it
27:12 – ???? sir, right now, 2300 seems pretty clear here
28:05 – atc: cactus 1452, thanks for your help, we appreciate it, contact tower 130.5 28:12 – cactus: ..5 for cactus – did you find colgan?
28:14 – atc: uhhhh unfortunately they said he went down right over the marker KLUMP
29:17 – cactus 1452: tower, cactus 1452 is coming up on the marker, we saw the ground, you guys know whats going on?
29:24 – tower: cactus 1452, buffalo tower 162.14 going right 23, you are clear to land, yes sir, we are aware
29:29 – cactus 1452: k
You do know Skudly that even though George Bush & Dick Cheney are no longer in office doesn’t mean that their neocons aren’t still working in our government, right? And you do know that it’s easier for these scumbags to target civilians than it is to go after the president who is surrounded by Secret Service to make their point that GITMO must not be closed and the Bush Regime should not be held accountable for the war crimes they committed? Like for instance, Mike Connell…
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2008/Karl_Roves_IT_guru_Mike_Connell_1220.html
…who was about to testify on his role in stealing the 2004 presidential election for Georgie & Dickey and how his plane went down killing him?
Or how the microbiologist, Bruce Ivins, who was being hounded by the Bush Regime’s FBI over “his role in the anthrax attacks” and who ‘committed suicide’ right before he was to testify…
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-anthrax1-2008aug01,0,2864223.story
Ivins was most likely going to say at trial that the order to send out anthrax to liberals in America came directly from the White House!
But hey, you can believe that ice on the wings caused Flight 3407 to catch fire before impact and go straight down. I’m going to question it. If it was ice, then how come other planes in the area were able to land without incident? 40 seconds from the moment something happened on the plane to impact, so the pilots didn’t have time to put out a Mayday call? Seems to me something catastrophic happened. Maybe the cockpit was on fire?
Yes, and don’t forget the DC Madam whose little black book was just chockfull of republicant names. She also committed “suicide.”
Exactly Gage. David Vitter was on the DC Madam list and this is why we now know he liked wearing a diaper when having sex with his favorite prostitute!
Was Dick Cheney on the list? We’ll never know now. Spit.
Egads, I’ve got to fix the color of the comment boxes! Eww.
ROFL!!!
Y’know, if you actually believe even one tenth of the nonsense that you post just do the world a favor and drink a gallon of hemlock with a strychnine chaser, please.
Really Gunsniper? Well, you could do our nation a world of good if you turned that gun around of yours and pull the trigger!
Nah. The world is much better off with me in it. You on the other hand would make a great stem-cell margarita.
Bah hahahahahahaha!
Here’s a question for ya……how much radioactive materials do you have stored at your house? The nation needs to know.
None.
How many quarters can you fit in that gap between your teeth?
Less than the amount of quarters you can fit up your ass where the Bush Regime has been living for 8 years now.
So, tell me how ice on the wings of this plane caused the airplane to glow before impact.
Have you ever seen what happens when ice builds up over something that emits light? It makes it glow.
Like fire? Read the post.
And remember, the plane crashed AT NIGHT. It happened before 10:30pm.
Exactly. It was on final approach. ALL of it’s lights HAD to be on. Some of the lights that have to be flash red. Under a layer of ice, this could appear to be a fire to someone who is not expecting that color to flash on the airplane, especially under a layer of ice that causes the light to diffuse.
Some of the lights that have to be on flash red. Sorry for the typo.
As far as the sputtering and such…….Ice does horrible things to aerodynamic surfaces. It adds weight and reduces the effectiveness of the surface. An engine designed to spin a certain weight that is perfectly balanced (like a propeller) has trouble spinning an object that is no longer aerodynamic and is no longer balanced. Ice damage can take seconds to destroy an engine.
So before you spout these ridiculous conspiracy theories, at least do a little research.
Yes, I understand ice on a plane or on the roof of my house can damage it and cause both to weaken. I get that.
The engines are hot aren’t they? I highly doubt there was ice inside the engine strong enough to take the plane down.
There were other planes in the area that had no trouble with the ice (even with ice on the plane) and as many are ALSO STATING, the sound of the plane and it’s engine didn’t sound good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiOJSStsxpU
I find it very strange as to who was on board this plane. You don’t have to. You can chalk it up to a mere coincidence and it might just very well be a mere coincidence, but that does not mean I can’t question any of it.
The issues of ice on engines is not in the “hot” part of it, it’s on the various parts of the engine before combustion actually occurs. These parts of the engine are actually some of the coldest parts on the plane, that’s why there is so much technology on them for anti-icing and de-icing before takeoff. I can throw a lot of terms at you that you won’t understand, but suffice to say that there are a lot of precautions taken to prevent this, but ice in the engine can cause the exact sounds that these people are saying they heard.
I don’t disagree with you about the effects of ice on a plane, NCOShorty, but the whole premise of my post was to point out who was on board this plane and how I thought it was very interesting. My comment @ #24 highlights this.
My posts are ALWAYS meant to enrage or to provoke discussion. You don’t have to believe my opinion or my observations just as I don’t have to yours. See? What the neocon trolls feel when they come here is that I’m being mean to their Georgie and they feel that I should submit to this man to save my life (because in their eyes whoever doesn’t worship George Bush or his brand of conservatism must die). Well, ain’t gonna happen!
My, how the trolls hate conspiracy theories when they include their little king or their IRRELEVANT political party! But hey everybody the Clinton’s killed Vince Foster, Barack Obama’s birth certificate is fake…blah, blah, blah *yawn*
In regards to the plane crash and Beverly Eckert. I didn’t think nothing of it when I heard about the weather conditions. I read comments at other blogs and read the conspiracy theories and admit I *rolled my eyes* But after reading Beverly Eckert’s letter it does make me take pause and consider the ramifications if the government in a court of law had to reveal the failures of the NSA, CIA & FBI.
The fact is whether you believe the terrorists are solely responsible for 9/11, if you believe it was an inside job or you believe Bush just knowingly allowed it to happen for obvious reasons (Take advantage of our fear, Iraq war, The Patriot Act I & II, etc, etc) you must admit the government has gone out of their way to cover asses.
Could this have been sabotage to silence one person? We will never know. Would the government sacrifice 49 of their own citizens as collateral damage to take out 1 whose law suit against the government threatens to open up a can of worms, you bet they would.
I’m not saying this is or isn’t what happened in the case of Beverly Eckert and the 49 other Americans demise but things aren’t always as they appear. Those in the CIA and the other intelligent agencies use deception, slight of hand, look over here not over there techniques all the time to keep the truth from being exposed. A tell tale sign will be how the clean up and investigation are handled.
Exactly Insidious at #44! Thank you.
Ice has been a leading factor in several fatal crashes of turboprop planes similar to the one that crashed this week, notably crashes in Roselawn, Ind., in 1994, and Raisinville Township, Mich., south of Detroit, in 1997 killing all on board those flights, 68 and 29 respectively. The American Airlines turbo-prop, a French-built ATR, and Delta’s Brazilian-built Embrarer did not have deicing equipment. The 15 new Bombardier Q400 planes purchased by Colgan Air in the past year all had de-icing equipment with sensors built in to deploy them. Yet to be determined is if those safeguards were in working condition. The inflatable rubber edges on this plane may not have worked either if the ice build-up was too thick. See picture #5 in this link:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/02/13/nyregion/Buffalo-Crash.html
Federal Aviation Administration has not adopted recommendations made more than a decade ago intended to prevent such ice-related disasters. (But since it happened three weeks into the Obama administration, BLAME OBAMA!).
I do believe it was an accident since the crew was radioing the tower that heavy icing was occurring. The Weather Channel has been replaying tapes of their radar around that time and the Buffalo region was being pelted with snow, sleet, and freezing rain.
Read in my paper that ice only the thickness of a CD can diminish a wing’s lift by 25%. The pilot was new to this plane and the co-pilot had only been flying this model since mid-January. There may have been too much reliance on “auto-pilot” and not enough “hands-on” like Capt. Sullenberger displayed landing on the Hudson River.
Whenever people involved in controversy are victims, then extra care needs to be taken to make sure every leaf is turned in the investigation. This flight did seem to have a variety of people, many well known in music, too: (Remember too: is NOT a smiley face!!!)
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/14/nyregion/14passengers.html?pagewanted=1&hp
Since Buffalo has a sizable Muslim population with some of their citizens already involved with terrorism investigations, I am surprised I haven’t heard of this connection but then I don’t watch Fox or Glenn Beck.
“How does ice on the wings cause the whole plane to be on fire as one witness said it was”
Fuel is carried in the wings, hit the ground fuel leaks out and hot engines ignite the fuel. Turbo props do not sputter but that is not the first witness in a crash to not know what they heard. He was at the outer marker which meant he was lowering his gear and changing the configuration of the aircraft which caused it to crash because of ice. Wind had nothing to do with it.
“The American Airlines turbo-prop, a French-built ATR, and Delta’s Brazilian-built Embrarer did not have deicing equipment.”
The ATR and the same type of de-icing equipment as the one in Buffalo. De-icing is totally different than anti-ice equipment. Ice is never a good think on an airplane.
So since Bush engineered the 9/11 crashes, why the hell did he kill Barbara Olson in the Pentagon plane? Why would he want HER dead? Or is she not in a gulag but rather in some super-secret lair working up schemes against the Obama camp? I’m sure there were a few volcanoes available to tuck her away in with internet access and a cell phone. Maybe it’s her fault that all these guys like Burris and Gregg and Geithner keep getting caught. Shit, it’s worse than I thought. They didn’t lock her up, right?
Burris, Gregg, and Geithner got caught at what, Brain Surgeon?
Thanks to George Bush the next 9/11 attack on our nation won’t be a surprise and as Dick Cheney stated recently, they’re thinking of going nuclear this time around!
Holy hell, are you sure??? You should report that immediately!
I can’t thank true patriots like you enough for breaking these stories and bringing them to the attention of people who need to know them.
Nuclear! Damn, we’re lucky to have you to stop that shit from happening!
But you didn’t answer the question – clearly, Bush wouldn’t want Barbara Olson dead – where are they squirreling her away at, do you think?
Collateral damage perhaps? I remember hearing reports that she was alive and well and spotted somewhere in Europe.
Anniee451
on Feb 15th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
I can’t thank true patriots like you enough for breaking these stories and bringing them to the attention of people who need to know them.
“““““““““““““““““““““““““`
If only you so called “true” American patriots on the right had the balls or brains to question your fearless leader every once in a while our country and the world would be a better place?
Well there’s gratitude for you; I THANK her for bringing these important stories out into the open and I get accused of being a closet right-winger who worships Bush? Get thee behind me!
But really – is that true, that Olson was spotted somewhere alive and well in Europe? I hadn’t heard that. Isn’t there ANYONE planning on finishing off the job? She was a true danger, you know.
Barbara Bracher Olson was Ted Olson’s third wife. He has since married #4.
She is either dead or Ted is a bigamist. There has always been some mystery about Barbara’s “phone calls” to Ted as her plane was hurtling towards the Pentagon:
http://www.geocities.com/subliminalsuggestion/olson.html
I used to substitute teach at Houston’s Waltrip High School at the time Barbara Olson and movie actor Patrick Swayzee were students there. Hell, I might have taught them a thing or two!
If only you so called “true” American patriots on the right had the balls or brains to question your fearless leader every once in a while our country and the world would be a better place?
===================================
We should question all of the elected officials. I am waiting for you to question his holiness emperor obamba about anything. What would be even better is fer him to answer a question
We should question all elected officials? Huh. I never knew you neocons were so into that! For 8 years you told us that we were unpatriotic and America-haters for questioning George Bush! My, my, my, how you neocons change your tune after putting your wet finger in the air!
By the way Skudmarks, there are new posts above to comment on or do you feel you have to hide down here to protect yourself?
We should question all of the elected officials.
Too bad when some of us said the very same thingy about Bush and the incompetent fooles he had chosen to fuck the entire country up, reich wing assholes like YOU screeched it was treason.
And the entire reich wing spin machine worked over time to out a CIA agent and attack Army generals and former marines who chose to tell the truth.
Your about eight years late bozo.
Right on Clif! *military belly bump*